The following is a transcript of the online workshop that was conducted on December 2002.  A consultative group of experts contributed to this productive session.  See below...

Chat Interactive Democracy Inventory - Dec 19th started, Thu Dec 19 10:29:15 EST 2002

Good Evening everybody. -- Herbert Burkert Moderator comment:

Good day from New York -- Beth Noveck speak

We're expecting about 15-20 people so let's hang on a few minutes until people start to arrive. -- Beth Noveck speak

Good morning ladies and gentleman -- Sean Ang of which day? -- Beth Noveck speak

Greetings. While we wait for more people to arrive, please introduce yourselves. For those of you who are new to the Unchat environment, your postings will go to the moderator (that's me, for now) before they are broadcast to the group. So feel free to fire away, I'll hold your introductions until everyone is here. -- Beth Noveck speak

In the meantime, a few technical notes. SHOUT bypasses the moderator and broadcasts directly to the group. WHISPER is a private message to another participant that cannot be seen by anyone else. -- Beth Noveck speak

Try to address specific people's comments by name to make it easier for everyone to follow the thread. -- Beth Noveck speak

If you have something lengthier to say, send the first half of your message with .... at the end. Then I'll know to hold the speaking queue until the second half of your message arrives. -- Beth Noveck speak

the CHAT ARCHIVE (upper right) has a running transcript in case you miss anything...and if you see someone come in late, you might whisper to them that they can catch up that way. -- Beth Noveck speak

Oh, and, finally you can cut and paste text from other documents into the chat using your keyboard (CTRL-C, CTRL-V) commands. -- Beth Noveck speak

Last week, we sent out a very rough draft of a list of questions for this interactive site and we've gotten some great comments back already. After we've gone through introductions, we'll give you a brief rundown of the structure as it is currently set up, talk about mission statement and get more input on how we need to revise this. We'll talk about what's need in terms of next steps and break before the hour since I promised you a shorter chat. -- Beth Noveck speak

Ernie Miller - fellow of the Information Society Project, Editor-in-Chief of LawMeme (a blog on law, technology and policy - blogs being a democratic technology), founder of Filter Tobacco, an experiment in rating and filtering technology -- Ernest Miller Moderator comment:

Intro: Hi, I'm Joe Goldman. I work for AmericaSpeaks, a nonprofit that specializes in large scale citizen engagement... writing in from Cambridge, where I'm getting my masters at the Kennedy School... -- Joseph Goldman Moderator comment:

Hello everybody. I am Sean Ang from Malaysia. Driver of e-LA21 (Electronic Local Action for the 21st Century) in Malaysia. I will be pilotting some e-democracy projects in Malaysia soon. -- Sean Ang Moderator comment:

I'm Steve Johnson. Annapolis MD. I have a non-profit, Simcivic.org, which operates an online Social Security Reform Simulator. -- Steven Johnson Moderator comment:

Herbert - currently Cologne, Germany (Research Centre for Information Law, St.Gallen, Switzerland) -- Herbert Burkert Moderator comment:

Hi. I'm Scott Aikens. I've been working as a researcher and practitioner in electronic media for the past 9 years. -- Scott Aikens Moderator comment:

Intro: John Spady, Forum Foundation and staff at the University of Washington in Seattle. -- John Spady Moderator comment:

My name is Stephen Coleman. I am the recently-appointed Professor of e-Democracy at the University of Oxford. I can stay in this meeting for about 45 minutes. -- Stephen Coleman Moderator comment:

thank you, Beth, for facilitating this exchange. While I am currently at Yale, back home (in Peru) I am running an online e-democracy forum and together with the Law School at the catholic Univeristy in Lima we are debating on line a new draft of the Peruvian Constitution. -- Beatriz Boza Moderator comment:

And I'm Beth Noveck, professor at New York Law School and general instigator -- Beth Noveck speak

Rob Heverly, currently a Fellow with the Information Society Project at Yale Law School, having spent nine years at a research institute called the Government Law Center at Albany Law School. -- Robert Heverly Moderator comment:

Greetings to all, I'm Chun Li - student at New York Law School -- Chun Li Moderator comment:

It makes sense to discuss the mission of the project before delving into the questions. We talked last time at great length about who the audience for this is, what the purpose is, how to express that. It was agreed that we need to have a separate conversation about just this question yet, at the same time, we needed to move forward on the questions in order to let the programmers do their work. -- Beth Noveck speak

Our conversation last time centered around the question of how "normative" we should be and how best to convey the goal of promoting participatory democracy. -- Beth Noveck speak

Here's what's currently up there.... -- Beth Noveck speak

oops - I think I just fished out the wrong text... -- Beth Noveck speak

Mission: With the support of the Council of Europe and AmericaSpeaks, the Workshop is building a web-based interface to allow the global community to gather and search democratic scholarship, activities, events and organizations. The goal of this project is to strengthen participatory democracy by acting as a clearinghouse of information. The use of a standard labeling taxonomy will make it easier to index, sort and retrieve data about the nature of projects, their underlying democratic theory, technology involved, and other information. -- Chun Li -- Beth Noveck speak

Let me just ask you at the outset if there's any additional feedback, reaction, thoughts on this before we move to a discussion of the questions? -- Beth Noveck speak

Any additional input and we'll then revise accordingly to draft a paragraph that can sit on the homepage of this site -- Beth Noveck speak

Just participatory democracy? Whose definition? -- Sean Ang Moderator comment:

An important effort. Networks of diverse resources need switching nodes that give visibility to all the facets of the network. -- Steven Johnson Moderator comment:

The key that people will be searching for is specific kinds of innovation, should that be highlighted? -- Joseph Goldman Moderator comment:

Can you expand on that, Joe? -- Beth Noveck speak

I would like to highlight the educational institutions that have formal interest in Dialogue. -- John Spady Moderator comment:

What do people think about format? A one-para short description and then a longer text? Something more innovative? -- Beth Noveck speak

We had an injunction from Brook Manville last time to be VERY normative! -- Beth Noveck speak

Well, I guess when I was going through the questions yesterday it seemed like all of the searchable labels were geared to kinds of organizations. I'm not sure quite what I'm searching for, but the key is to be able to highlight and search for kinds of innovations that address targetted problems of the searchers. -- Joseph Goldman Moderator comment:

Clearinghouse implies an editorial function determining what enters the database, who is the clearinghouse here? -- Ernest Miller Moderator comment: Excellent point

The idea is that the taxonomy of the site and its self-labeling capability allows users to classify themselves and their own projects to minimize the editorial pigeon-holing. -- Beth Noveck speak

But there will have to be an administrative and editorial function performed to ensure the quality of postings, i.e. no garbage -- Beth Noveck speak

what do you mean by "democratic scholarship"?? -- Beatriz Boza Moderator comment:

Can the labels "morph" over time ... old labels trace to newer labels so the evolution can be followed and still searched for. This might help the system remain vital as research and terms change over time. -- John Spady You are right, it must do this. This has to be a dynamic and evolving project. -- Beth Noveck speak

Joe, I assume innovations encompass technologies and methodologies, what other kinds of innovations do you think should be included? -- Chun Li Moderator comment:

Perhaps, then a distributed model. Labeling occurs and a variety of groups could apply their own editorial functions. -- Ernest Miller Moderator comment: Interesting - please expand

Coming back to your question, Beatriz, let me ask you to what extent we should define the terms strongly, normatively, clearly v. leaving the categories vague and open to include more people? -- Beth Noveck speak

Hi Beth and everyone else, sorry for the late login. I hope my late login is not too rude. Will try to catch up with the discussion. -- Harry Kiat Harry, would you introduce yourself? -- Beth Noveck speak

Whatever answers are used today will be provisional. No one can possibly anticipate all the questions people will bring. Design solution - leave room for messy, don't fit the categories, inquiries. And leave room for updating the labels. Getting the broad categories right is probably more important than getting all the individual labels right. -- Steven Johnson Moderator comment:

Let me tie up the responses and comments on the "mission" and we'll have to come back to this question later. It's crucial but we should talk about the nitty gritty so that the programmers can get to work. -- Beth Noveck speak

Basically, you create a system of labels. First party sites label their projects. Third party aggregators gather the labeled sites and organize them according to the third party's philosophy. One's third party's garbage is another third party's interesting project. -- Ernest Miller Moderator comment:

I'm talking about garbage in the form of XXXXXX Blah Blah Blah -- Beth Noveck speak

Any other comments on mission, definitions, ways or presenting this? -- Beth Noveck speak

Sure thing. Once again, Hello everyone. My name is Harry Tan from Singapore. I am a professor at Nanyang Business School, Nanyang Technological University and I am the Director of CAPTEL - Centre for Asia Pacific Technology Law & Policy. -- Harry Kiat Moderator comment:

The mission then focuses on standard protocols and labels (or a protocol of an extensible labeling system), rather then focus on being a clearinghouse for those who have labels. -- Ernest Miller Moderator comment:

What would be the effect of allowing users to ccreate new labels? Would it make things less useful as people try to distinguish themselves not only substantively but also formally? Or would it allow the editors to see how perceptions are changing "on the ground"? -- Robert Heverly Moderator comment: Does anyone want to respond to that?

Also - let me ask since we're moving into a discusion of the labels whether there are any general questions about what all this is...anything we can clarify...don't worry about asking. Most people here today were not here last time. -- Beth Noveck speak

Properly structured, such a system would be both very useful and democratic. I am reminded of Google. -- Ernest Miller Moderator comment:

Beth, I think "participatory democracy" has a double meaning. Who's involved? How is the discussion/debate/dialogue/disagreement structured? The "who" question is easier to answer - the goal is e-democracy projects & tools that expand inclusiveness. The "how" is more debatable. Some favor sharply clashing opinions> Others favor more rational, evidence-based, collaborative problem-solving. -- Steven Johnson Moderator comment:

What will be the incentive for particular groups to go to the trouble to want to distinguish themselves within this system. Will system provide some status conferral that will result in concrete rewards? If so, how might systems of status conferral and linkages to rewards work? -- Scott Aikens Moderator comment:

Let's come back to the question of incentives at the end, Scott, unless there's a direct tie-in to the issues of structure and labels etc. -- Beth Noveck speak

The way the architecture of site is currently envisioned, a party would have to register as an organization or as an individual and could then upload information about an event, a writing or a project that would be tied to that registration. This would allow one organization to register multiple projects..... -- Beth Noveck speak

Questions generate based on prior responses... -- Beth Noveck speak

You can check all labels that apply... -- Beth Noveck speak

So you don't have to choose between "participatory" and "deliberative," for example.... -- Beth Noveck speak

In this way, people can describe and search according to the most meaningful terms. -- Beth Noveck speak

It's a bit of a circular inquiry, with one thing determining the next, but since this is an online tool, my experience is that audience is crucial, and the nature of the average audience-members inquiry ought to determine the boilerplate experience of the system. -- Jed Miller So what's the impact then, as you envision it, on structure? Any guidance you can give? -- Beth Noveck speak

I am looking at labels - and I thought this could be linked to data mining. If the labels could be coded earlier - easy for doing the data mining part later (wonder if this is relevant to the discussions) -- Sean Ang Moderator comment: Does anyone want to respond to that?

later on after at regular intervals there would be time for refinements. -- Herbert Burkert Moderator comment: Excellent point

Let me especially ask, Phil, if I can put him on the spot, about what the ICRA experience may teach about trying to self-label not naughty bits but nice stuff like democracy projects, scholarship, events? -- Beth Noveck speak

Do we have the categories right in the first place? Organizations/Individuals and then Events, Projects, Writings? -- Beth Noveck speak

Well my guess is it satisfies more customers if it's more generic in its scheme - so a listing of things that relate to the biggest mission of participatory democracy, rather than too strong a focus on, say, discussion tools or papers presented or any single phylum. -- Jed Miller Moderator comment: Does anyone disagree?

I assume that clearer labels will enble easier data mining, but may give incentive to self-label broadly rather than accuretly. -- Nimrod Kozlovski Moderator comment:

I agree with Sean. I think we should look at innovative methods of creating meaning (like datamining). I like the way that Google determines meaningful terms and their meanings in a very democratic fashion ... perhaps this should be one of the missions. -- Ernest Miller Moderator comment:

Beth, I think lots of ordinary people coming to this resource would do so beause they care about a specific topic. Global warming. save the whales. pharmaceuticals for Africa. and would want to know who's conducting dialogue on that topic. The current design doesn't seem to gather topic-focused descriptors. I think topic-focused descriptors will make the ultimate database more attractive to to many. -- Steven Johnson Moderator comment:

Should there be a category for models? Do we really think that organizations are going to remember to submit updates for their upcoming events, or is the event category for org's to record their most successful events? -- Joseph Goldman Moderator comment:

Joe, can you explain "models"? -- Beth Noveck speak

If you've registered as an organization, the system could remind you regularly to post your events. -- Beth Noveck speak

But coming back to Herbert's point, I want to remind people that there's a team of programmers who want to code the first draft so that we can refine it. So anything concrete at this point would be extremely useful. Steven, would you be willlng to create a list of "topic labels"? -- Beth Noveck speak

to rebut my own comment, if there IS a discrete audience that's more specified than the general universe I named above, then it iS worth putting their needs at the center, at least for launch, as long as the structure and model are 'modular' enough -- Jed Miller Are there certain labels sets for particular audiences that you might want to draft? -- Beth Noveck speak

Joseph raises a good point, I think any such system should facilitate automatic updating and gathering of information, rather than have people have to enter information directly. A model based on RSS might be a good idea. -- Ernest Miller Moderator comment: Interesting - please expand

Models: a defined format of engagement. AmericaSpeaks has a 21st Century Town Meeting model that utilizes keypad polling and groupeware computers in a specific way. Study Circles Resource Center has a model of small group dialogue for sustained community problem solving, etc, etc. -- Joseph Goldman -- Beth Noveck speak

Great idea, Joe. Kettering, Consensus Councils, Citizen Juries etc, Could you capture this? -- Beth Noveck speak

I mean, could you create a set of questions that would allow people to label a "model" -- Beth Noveck speak

I'd be glad to give you a first cut. -- Steven Johnson Moderator comment:

Naomi Klein has an interesting insight from the side of the social movements on online deleibration (in her new book "Fences and Windows"). She offers to follow such an inventory, but to give emphsize not on the organizational or institutional structure but rather on the agenda-related topic. I basically agree with this notion. Audience are more interested in the content of the agenda and not the particular discussion format. -- Nimrod Kozlovski Moderator comment:

The system should remind... yes, but also events that are about to expire or items that have been in the database for "a specific time" should generate an email back to the originator saying that the item may soon be removed unless the originator logs back on and edits or extends the original entry. -- John Spady Moderator comment: Good idea

For every definition of models, a link to the actual website will be useful -- Sean Ang All postings will have the ability to input URLS as well as free form text descriptions. -- Beth Noveck speak

Let me also raise another point...the way we drafted this it is terrible for an international audience ;-) We need to rethink these from a multinational perspective. -- Beth Noveck speak

And really need some input to get at what questions to ask -- Beth Noveck speak

it seems to me that the clearinghouse and labelling system facilitates the work of those trying to input data but I am not so sure whether is also helps those searching for data -- and there the idea of topic-specific info and technologies used might be woth lookin ginto -- Beatriz Boza Moderator comment: Interesting - please expand

Rather than encourage and bug people to add information, the information should be gathered when people enter it into their own websites. If they used an RSS-based tool, a variety of third party aggregators could gather and organize the information. Just as LawMeme's headlines can be syndicated and aggregated by others. This avoids the reminder problem and makes a more robust, decentralized system. -- Ernest Miller Moderator comment:

A translation engine? -- Sean Ang Moderator comment:

Money? -- Beth Noveck speak

Sean, Ernie, what's involved? Cost? Time? How big are these hurdles? Because the results would be great. -- Beth Noveck speak

I think the best "translation engine" is a multi-lingual human being :-) -- John Spady Moderator comment: Excellent point

John's volunteering to act as the gatekeeper. -- Beth Noveck speak

The RSS model may be a wise idea, but should be arranged, as Beatriz is saying based on the interest of the audience in a certain topic. -- Nimrod Kozlovski Moderator comment:

Nimrod, Beatriz, does this get back to Steven Johnson's point? -- Beth Noveck speak

for Steven and Beth, Providence College and Project 540 have created a taxonomy of issues/topics for the Civic Resource Guide -- it's online as icons or clickable topics at project540.org/act -- Jed Miller Moderator comment:

Is this a sort of democracy-xml? -- Herbert Burkert Moderator comment: Does anyone want to respond to that?

Your point about the multinational perspective is important. Please remember that most people on the earth do not speak English as a first language and that the US approach to democratic engagement is exceptional, even from a European point of view. The American debate about e-democracy has always seemed to me to be a rather eccentric one. -- Stephen Coleman Moderator comment:

Please expand, Stephen, FYI - the Council of Europe has promised at least French trnaslation. -- Beth Noveck speak

Yes. I sunscribe to Steven Johnson's point. We should "give the audience what they want". We should not focus on the particular deliberation process, but on the content of discussion. -- Nimrod Kozlovski Moderator comment: Does anyone disagree?

that is an excellent elevator-pitch, Herbert! -- Jed Miller Moderator comment:

(of course, it only works for people who know what XML is... :-) ) -- Jed Miller Moderator comment:

While I really like the idea of automating updates through technological means, I think relying on technology at this point could cause problems. RSS, for example, requires not just code added to a page, but also scripts and engines installed on the originating and receiving pages. Unless everything's perfect, problems will arise. I would keep it simpler, at least until the technology catches up with the need. -- Robert Heverly Moderator comment:

I guess the question on models and other labels is what are people coming to the site for: I'm a gov't official and I want to find out some way to engage residents of my community to address a certain problem, what do I search for? I'm a practitioner looking for the newest innovation in integrating face-to-face with online methodologies, what am I looking for? There are certainly defining characteristics of models that could be used as labels, but how do you keep up with no innovations? -- Joseph Goldman Moderator comment:

Following on Joe's point (and in response to Nimrod, Beatriz and Steven), I think that topic labels are important but shouldn't be exclusionary or exclusive.... -- Beth Noveck speak

We have a normative mission to promote participatory practices, no? -- Beth Noveck speak

Therefore we want to ask about participation, deliberation and other categories that might make sense for an international audience but get a thte same thing. -- Beth Noveck speak

Well funded, committed human editors / curators (with strong points of view) seem critical to this, in general. I say this because *I'm not certain* the size the audience will justify more sophisticated database tools. - The opendemocracy project in the UK seems like a good model. They're doing a mapping of e-democracy ... parters, perhaps? -- Scott Aikens Moderator comment:

Sorry, typo there, shouldn't say "no" innovations -- Joseph Goldman thanks. -- Beth Noveck speak

I don't want to expand about American exceptionalism in this context - it would take too long and could be a distraction. (I am writing about this elsewhere.) -- Stephen Coleman Moderator comment:

It would be XML compatible. Devoloping a democracy RSS for events would be relatively easy. Robert Heverly's point is important, but to the extent that we have to get people to label in the first point, creating the tools to make an RSS feed is trivial. Blogs are the great example, HTML diaries are dificulyt to maintain, but blog technology made it easy. We should aim for similart tools for edemocracy. -- Ernest Miller Moderator comment:

totally agree with Joe - who are YOU and what can this site do for YOU is the key question - would be wonderful to have different paths and interfaces, even, for difft visitors - the NYT Learning Network (nytimes.com/learning) was conceived this way, with hubs for teachers, students and parents -- Jed Miller Moderator comment:

Great idea for the opening/intro/mission stuff. -- Beth Noveck speak

Joseph goldman's comment on why people come to the site is important. How about a brief question, "why are you heRE?" "what problem are you trying to solve?" with 10 or 15 examples of how others have answered that question. some might call this "getting to know the customer". -- Steven Johnson Moderator comment:

Good idea, -- Beth Noveck speak

I have to weigh in with Beth on that one (about topic labels); if you are interested in saving whales, and all you look at is projects focused on animals, you could miss the project on farming that has a structure that could work for you. I would rather see the focus on the methodologies/structures/processes. -- Robert Heverly Moderator comment:

Yes, different labels for different users totally makes sense... -- Joseph Goldman -- Beth Noveck speak

Again, this is why RSS is good, it let's aggregators gather information for their particular audience and ignore stuff that isn't important to them. -- Ernest Miller Moderator comment:

Since the hour is getting on, let me see if we can't translate all these good ideas into concrete to-dos. Is any of this incomptible, first of all? Are there choices to be discussed ? Or can we do it all? -- Beth Noveck speak

Note that some of us really don't know what the heck RSS means. -- Joseph Goldman Moderator comment: Excellent point

While Ernie, I guess, is working up his response...how about some volunteers!!! -- Beth Noveck speak

Re language: I'm not just thinking of English and French - and I'm not just thinking of formal languages. What about issues of accessibility for different frames of discourse and articulation? These are classical questions of metadata. Even labels like 'deliberation' and 'participation' are hugely problematic and culturally centred. -- Stephen Coleman Moderator comment:

I agree, Stephen, and didn't mean to suggest at all that French was the solution (was supposed to be funny, actually). But how do we overcome this hurdle in practice if we want to implement this? Or do we give up? Or do we see how people respond and then refine the labels? -- Beth Noveck speak

Robert's point could be addressed by an encouragement on the site to look not only for "issue" -"geography" "langauge" but also "method/approach" - -- Herbert Burkert Moderator comment:

Beth, I think you've got some working themes. Most of them expansions on a solid base. One more expansion I'd propose: A Wish List. "The Project I wished I could find, but couldn't". -- Steven Johnson Moderator comment: Good idea

I think the important to do is to step back and consider the perspective of the various potential users and rethink labels based on their needs. -- Joseph Goldman Moderator comment:

That's why we asked you to see if you could label your own work and what that would entail. But you're suggesting, Joe, that we do this more explicitly? Do we choose the path or does the registrant? -- Beth Noveck speak

I certainly wouldn't suggest giving up. But I think that you do need to think much more about potential users - which could well involve a potential users' survey. Have you thought of running one? -- Stephen Coleman Moderator comment:

This is what we're doing now, Stephen, and with the mailings that have and will go out. The endeavor is supported by the most meager of funds, all of which are going to the programmers. -- Beth Noveck speak

Let the "focus" be selected by the user... if they want to look for whales or animals then the system should do that... if they choose methodologies/tructures/processes then the focus can be on that... the system should be flexible for the user. -- John Spady Moderator comment:

I think this'll end up needing to identify its core initial audience(s) and risk leaving others nearer the periphery. No strong feeling here on who it is, but the interface and language must convey something about who it is the instant one arrives. -- Jed Miller Moderator comment:

I'm not talking about user as in the person who enter their own information. I'm talking about user in terms of the person who comes to the site to look up information. That is the critical audience. -- Joseph Goldman Moderator comment: Does anyone disagree?

Question of languages is particularly important in European context. Seems to me the intense interest in e-democracy in Europe comes from the democratic defecit that comes with greater European integration. What a bold experiment, and the great fault lines are linguistic. -- Scott Aikens Moderator comment:

Even in the UK - you have the Scots, the Welsh, the English, the Irish ... a log of linguistic traditions. -- Scott Aikens Moderator comment:

As to Stephen Coleman's point, does that mean that we need to allow some sort of "open labeling" system? And what does that do to the utility of the system? -- Robert Heverly Moderator comment:

Open labeling is the most effective means of labeling - I give you Google -- Ernest Miller Moderator comment:

RSS is a protocol for syndicating information from websites to be gathered and published by other websites. When LawMeme, or other news source that uses RSS, publishes an article, information about the article (headline, author, date/time published, body of article) is gathered and put into an XML-file. Other sites can then get this information and publishes it on their websites how they want. So, for example, one website can keep track of the most recent headlines, or the most recent work by a particular author. It is very, very useful. -- Ernest Miller Moderator comment: No Comment

Let me come back again to the question of next steps ;-) Sorry to be a taskmistress but you want to go Christmas shopping and the programmers want to work so let me recap..... -- Beth Noveck speak

Steven Johnson is going to work on "topic" labels? -- Beth Noveck speak

Joe Goldman will take a crack at a set of "methodology" labels? -- Beth Noveck speak

Yes :-) -- Steven Johnson Moderator comment:

Ernie, Rob and the ISP folks are going to work out this RSS question in a practical way that we can explain to the tech team? -- Beth Noveck speak

Actually, I think a combination of labeling and datamining, looking for relationships between projects (as Google does) would be the most useful approach. The system should permit the automatic gathering of such data through means such as RSS. -- Ernest Miller Moderator comment:

And Sean? -- Beth Noveck speak

You can always have "semi-open labeling" in which you present possible labels, but you allow people to create other labels if they do not aggree with the ones available. This would probably have the benefits of both methods. And if a lot of people start classif -- Caio Pereira Moderator comment: Excellent point

I didn't know that I was volunteering, but I guess I can find some time... -- Joseph Goldman ;-) -- Beth Noveck speak

I can give feedback on the user interface once it is ready (usability) :) -- Sean Ang thanks -- Beth Noveck speak

None of these tasks should be all that onerous or time consuming. -- Beth Noveck speak

Who else can I volunteer for what? -- Beth Noveck speak

I can gather information on the creation of an "event" RSS feed. -- Ernest Miller Moderator comment:

I am on board-- Nimrod Kozlovski -- Nimrod Kozlovski Moderator comment:

There are many people who couldn't join us today and who will help out so defining tasks doesn't mean you either have to do them or do them alone. -- Beth Noveck speak

In any event, we're committed to coordinating the whole thing and pulling together the drafts, circulating them, working with programmers etc. -- Beth Noveck speak

Ernie, I think what we would need is a step-by-step of everything sites (both submitting and the Workshop site) would need to do to make this work and what the current bugs in the system are (especially security issues and vulnerabilities). Does that sound useful to everyone in terms of understanding how RSS would effect the project? -- Robert Heverly Moderator comment: No Comment

Anything more on the idea of the different "paths"? -- Beth Noveck speak

Have we captured that? -- Beth Noveck speak

Also - what about the international issues? Stephen, do you or one of your team or students have time to give some more guidance on this off-line? Even an email wth some thoughts would be helpful as we revise -- Beth Noveck speak

Robert, sounds good to me ... you volunteering to assist? -- Ernest Miller I've already volunteered him! -- Beth Noveck speak

Beatriz had to go but I volunteer her, too, to look at the international issues. -- Beth Noveck speak

Of course - I'd be pleased to send some thoughts. -- Stephen Coleman Thanks! -- Beth Noveck speak

On the international issues, I will email some thoughts later. -- Sean Ang Moderator comment:

Okay - we'll circulate the transcript immediately and then write up a summary. -- Beth Noveck speak

Gotta go. Bye! -- Joseph Goldman shout

I would love to do international stuff too. -- Nimrod Kozlovski Moderator comment:

We'll send out the to-do list now, too. -- Beth Noveck speak

Should we a time frame for some of these items? -- Chun Li Yes, soon, please..... -- Beth Noveck speak

Beth, I can exchange some ideais with people involved in e-democracy in Brazil and try to get inputs from them, in order to send to you -- Caio Pereira Moderator comment:

Since the programmers have already been working, we'll be holding the team in abeyance the longer it takes us. -- Beth Noveck speak

Keep in mind, we can always refine afterwards. -- Beth Noveck speak

I would like to say that I believe that "simple respect" for others and their ideas is the best international outreach that can be done. -- John Spady Moderator comment: Excellent point

And if anyone has any money ;-) -- Beth Noveck speak

we need that to realize all the many good ideas! -- Beth Noveck speak

I can have the Israeli e-government project engaged. -- Nimrod Kozlovski Moderator comment:

Happy holidays everyone. I look forward to our next gathering. Good bye. -- John Spady Moderator comment:

Let me know if I can help. Thanks. Bye. -- Scott Aikens Moderator comment:

More soon....will be in touch! -- Beth Noveck speak

We'll hang on for anyone who has final thoughts..... -- Beth Noveck speak

Thank you and good night -- Herbert Burkert Moderator comment:

Happy Holidays, Beth! I'll get you a first cut Topics List shortly. -- Steven Johnson Moderator comment:

I am always willing to talk about the "What Is This" language, if it'd help. -- Jed Miller YES! -- Beth Noveck speak

Merry Christmas to everybody too. This is my first time - find it interesting. Will also give some thoughts on the usability of this engine later. Bye -- Sean Ang Moderator comment:

Good, then I'll talk to you soon! Feel free to send a doc or a link. -- Jed Miller Moderator comment:

Merry Christmas! Happy Solstice! Happy New Year! -- Beth Noveck speak

Bye for now! -- Jed Miller Moderator comment:

Happy holidays to all and to all seasons greetings. (The Night Before the Winter Holiday - Politically Correct version). -- Ernest Miller Moderator comment:

Bye. Merry Christmas. -- Nimrod Kozlovski Moderator comment:

Bye all! -- Robert Heverly Moderator comment:

Happy holidays to all of you. Bye for now. -- Caio Pereira Moderator comment:

Looks like the chat is closing before I could make any useful contributions. I guess there is always the next time. I would like to wish you all glad tidings for Christmas and may the new year bring you good fortune and happiness. -- Harry Kiat Moderator comment: